Moving a Sherpa steering box ?
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  1. #1
    Rods 'n' Sods Junkie
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    stormbird is offline

    Moving a Sherpa steering box ?

    Hi all

    More tech no how needed from you techie types ?

    This is the current Sherpa steering box , now marooned at the front of the chassis miles from the cockpit :-




    The existing control rod is 18" long and attaches underneath the hooked control arm on the kingpin.:-



    I have seen a couple of Sherpa based cars where the existing steering box is mounted behind the rear spring hanger on a plate welded to the chassis side , so this is a wooden mock-up to explore the idea.



    The new control rod will be 29" long and I am hoping if it low enough it can connect underneath the hooked control arm without fouling on full lock ?
    It would help if the hooked arm could be removed and fitted upside down pointing to the rear ? with the track rod end now being on the top ?



    The nut holding the pitmanarm/drag link ? measures 45.66mm or 1.8" so I assume I either need a 46mm or 1 13/16th socket to move it ?

    The arm has a diameter 51mm meaning none of the 'car' type Pitman arm splitters will work , they seem to be 33mm on Ebay ?

    I also assume one of the track rod ends will be left-hand thread ?

    Should the plate be 6mm ? [ 1/4" ] thick ?

    regards Paul

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    Official RnS Addict mygasser's Avatar
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    As the spring shackles are at the rear you will get bump steer with the box at the back.
    need a job done on your project? i may be able to help.

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    I'd of left it where it is. Use knuckle joint to get steering column where you want it. But if it's the route you want to take I'll give a hand. On search for the socket and I've got plate for the mount
    I'm not the best welder in the world.... but I'm in the top 5!

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    Off the Xmas card list kapri's Avatar
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    Both the above

    Not just bumpsteer but the car not ending up where you aim it as the swing shackle will move away towards the box.

    Box steering arm and front end of leaf work as a paralllel pair to ensure no deflecion on suspension travel.

    Remember 8 points if you are still going that way.
    Last edited by kapri; 11-01-2017 at 20:41.
    Rodder through passion not fashion.

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    Official RnS Addict Perfect65's Avatar
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    If you dont have a splitter, if the steering arm is accessible, slacken and remove the nut from the ball joint, take two suitable hammers. Two lump hammers or other 2+ pounders to give you an idea of minimum size. Give the steering arm a simultaneous blow on each side. Sometimes it will pop first time and sometimes not but it will pop. Some people prefer this if intending to re-use the joint as it doesn't damage the seals. Just be careful to hit it sharp with each hammer hitting at the same time, maybe wear safety specs in case of flying debris or metal. If one side only accessible for hammer swing just hold comething heavy against it one side and hit the other. This should work but may take a little longer as only half the impact. Good luck.
    Greatest discombobulations to all my readers.

    I started out with nothing and still have 90% of it left

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    Paul I'll bring my legged puller round
    I'm not the best welder in the world.... but I'm in the top 5!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect65 View Post
    If you dont have a splitter, if the steering arm is accessible, slacken and remove the nut from the ball joint, take two suitable hammers. Two lump hammers or other 2+ pounders to give you an idea of minimum size. Give the steering arm a simultaneous blow on each side. Sometimes it will pop first time and sometimes not but it will pop. Some people prefer this if intending to re-use the joint as it doesn't damage the seals. Just be careful to hit it sharp with each hammer hitting at the same time, maybe wear safety specs in case of flying debris or metal. If one side only accessible for hammer swing just hold comething heavy against it one side and hit the other. This should work but may take a little longer as only half the impact. Good luck.
    I have never used a splitter, a jack or axle stand underneath somewhere suitable and rap with hammers, has worked every time .

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    Hmm lots of stuff to think about ?

    I am trying to copy previous vehicles , although they may have all had bump steer ? to some degree ?

    Speed Six Bentley copy , some Sherpa parts


    This was written about the above cars steering ?



    Speed Four bentley copy , Sherpa chassis and all Sherpa steering & suspension parts etc just repositioned


    This guy with the Rover V16 has done the self same thing , although this may not have been driven ?



    This is why I want to move it , red lines probably cowl position , steering box right out in front , big and ugly


    To be honest I thought of leaving it where it is as that is the easy way out and just build a cover for it going down the side of the chassis , sort of try and make it look 'needed'.

    Then my welding fairy did such a good job of moving the engine/gearbox mounts I thought leaving the steering box in front was spoiling the ship for a ha-pence of tar ?

    of course a change of body shape would let me leave it where it is almost ?





    Although the above 1920 Sunbeam [ later Bluebird ] has an identical looking steering arrangement.

    regards Paul

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    What I can't understand is why it should suddenly appear/be worse when the steering box is moved.

    In my mind the link connecting the steering box arm to the kingpin lever can come from either direction and can be any length as the bump steer is dependant on the movement of the axle in relation to that arm ? as the arm has no way of changing it's length than there will always be an element of bump steer ?

    The main reference's to bump steer on the net are for rods where the spring is transverse and so is the link to the steering box , if the link is not parallel to the tie rod connecting both wheels bump steer is the result ?

    regards Paul

  12. #10
    Off the Xmas card list kapri's Avatar
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    What I'm telling you is hands on experience of buiding twin leaf beam front cars and NOT gleaned from internet from others who haven't done it either or who wouldn't know bumpsteer from a twisted rim Ther are lot of poorly handling cars out there where people just accept how it drives as being 'correct' rather tha seeing if room for improvement. Likewise there's a lot of cars out there using ismatched componenets because the want a look with no idea of actual function.


    When the steering box is the fixed shackle end the the steering arm and leaf move in ( virtually identical arcs ) ,.

    The steering arm cannot change length but the spring can . Because the steering arm can't then it has to move position to conteract teh different arc the beam is now travelling in .This will make the wheel end move ,either in or out dependent on the conflict in arcs.

    Look at the front steering tre position and that of the fixed spring eye .Now look at the proposed new site and how far away the tre is from the SWINGING shackle and you will see an immediate conflict in arcs.

    Now think about the steering arm pushing against that swinging shackle and you'll see the axle position will actually move as you are pushing and pulling the axle but on that side only.

    That means you then have another range of ever varying conflicting arcs to the already conflicting arcs! Not to mention effectively making the car crab as teh axles misalign to one another.

    THIS is the cause of the vague steering mentioned in the article. My friend had a 105E with a beam and twin leas and it always ended up parked about 2 feet from where he actually wanted to go because of this effect.

    The box can ( physically )be moved but the leaf spring mounts need changing front to rear to minimise bump steer.


    Picture of my own beam axle twin leaf built back in 1977 VERY pre internet. It took 4 steering systems until it drove correctly.
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    Last edited by kapri; 12-01-2017 at 09:53.
    Rodder through passion not fashion.

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