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Tribute to Edwardian aero engined cars and Land Speed Record cars of the 1920's

45K views 262 replies 40 participants last post by  stormbird 
#1 ·
Hi all

Well the donor has arrived :-



I got a good chassis , 1700 O series engine with 5 speed box , servo brakes and all done 107k in 30 years so not bad.

Want to build something loosely based on this car :-



So need to move radiator/engine/gearbox back about 3 ft and build steel cowl , aluminum bonnet/sides and wooden body.

I will use almost 100% Sherpa parts until DVLA accept re-body and then if I enjoy driving it , look at maybe a 6 pot motor bigger wheels and start making it look more period and every so slightly steam punk .....

regards Paul
 
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#34 ·
Being old is not so good for the working for long periods or in the cold , however being retired does mean I can grab 1/2 to 1 hour most days and things do get done even a tidy up helps once in a while.

So been busy looking at engine/gearbox positions after taking advice from a couple of the experts on here it seems my best option is to move the engine/gearbox x member onto the top of the chassis rails ? less cluttered up there as the suspension is not mounted on the top.

Part way through the operation it became clear the exhaust 2 into 1 would have to be removed ?

Took 2 days to get one manifold nut off ! and that was the one easiest to get to :bigsmile:

So this is where it is now :-



and this shows the engine is now 70cm [ 28" ] further back than it was :-



I will have another go at getting it back some more as it would look better further back.

Higher will suit the vehicle style , however it won't do much for the handling , neither will tall skinny tyres :D

I have puzzled over the old vehicles as doing this on mine has raised the prop shaft above the chassis and maybe into the cockpit ? I think the actual Edwardian cars did not have this problem as the engines were long stroke and so effectively the gearboxes were lower on the engine ?
 
#38 ·
Wow

Any pictures ?

build thread ?

Sounds like you have solved most of the problems I face.....

need to get my head around how tall it will be , looks like I will be able to drum my fingers on the roof of the wife's Astra from the drivers seat , just what we need !!!
 
#45 · (Edited)
Milestone reached no longer dismantelling

Progress at last...

After lots of good advice on my thread about engine/gearbox mounts and a very generous offer from someone nearby..

I have prepared the mounts for welding to the chassis about 71cm further back than they were originally.

I have the engine/box sat on baulks of timber and wheeled the chassis forward till the gearbox rubbers mated with the gearbox x-member , this left the chassis poking out of the garage door.

So I then needed the whole shooting match back inside the garage , so I borrowed a leaf from the Egyptians and put the engine x member on rollers made of 12mm bolts :-



The chassis rolled very easily into the garage dragging the engine with it , the engine then just needed packing up till the engine x member brackets could be bolted on in the right place :-



and this is the gearbox x member :-



So ready for welding , all holes will be plug welded and then edges welded where they touch :D
 
#48 · (Edited)
The magician has paid me a visit and performed his magic on and my chassis ?

engine bracket outside chassis



engine bracket inside chassis



gearbox bracket



sadly both the gearbox bracket pictures are slightly out of focus , just to excited looking at them to take a good picture ...

Want to dive in and get them wired brushed and painted , however laid low with chest infection at moment ....

Still there is always tomorrow ...

Next on the list is new gearbox rubbers and chopping the propshaft.

Paul
 
#53 · (Edited)
Its a possibility, I have a gmc pickup body that I want to mount but to use as a truck and not just a rod. So centre of axle to the front of the chassis will allow me to measure the centre of my wheel arch to the front of the wing to see if I have enough clearance without cutting into the chassis which fly's in the face of a re-body.
Cheers
 
#54 ·
There is approximately 30" between the axle centre and the front of front end cross member.

it is possible to move the axle fwd by 2" also as the spring lengths are different centres to hangers , I understand the Sherpleys did this to improve the looks ?

You need to be very careful which model you buy as it was in production for a very long time and came in a bewildering number of variants.

Mine says 250 CC on V5c which means it was the narrow model and the Chassis/Cab , the 3xx were 'wide' variants no idea what that means dimension wise.

any more questions please ask Paul
 
#56 ·
Hi all

Well prop shaft problem solved , Wilson drive shafts made me a one piece with a slip joint ...



Bit boring really :happy: as now it is made it sort of just sits there ?

Next to sort out is :-

steering - got to be make link between column and steering box
gear change - got to make custom remote as currently gear change is planned to be at firewall and so no where near seats [ to allow for bigger engine and box in future ?]
pipe brakes/clutch to new position

So am going to build mock-up of cockpit with pedals, seats and steering column fitted.

All for now Paul
 
#57 · (Edited)
Getting a bit weary of these mechanical issues so have started on a mock OSB board cockpit.

Well I have made a few mistakes , however that was the idea , and learnt a lot...



I could built it in the style of an out and out race car ? these two seats would fit between the chassis rails in the driver/mechanic position giving me a very slim body of about 32" + thickness of 2 sides ?[ Bugatti Type 35 width ]

However I realised I would have no one wanting a ride of more than 10 minutes as you have to ride in the left-hand seat with your right arm behind the drivers seat , I think I read somewhere in the early Grand Prix cars there was a grab handle on the cockpit wall behind the drivers seat for the mechanic to use , not good in a road car.

The only reference I can find (Andre Jute - Designing and building special cars ) saying the Edwardian rule of thumb for width was 16" per seat and 4.5" elbow room ? [ as he points out people were smaller in those days]

that gives 16"+16"+4.5"+4.5" = 41" [ assuming no elbow space between the seats ]
A Hillman special I found has a width of 43" at the elbows

43" looks quite wide or is it the barest minimum ? or for 2 seats staggered I may get away with less ?

is it ok to mount 1 seat on the floor ? with just runners on the drivers seat ?

Firewall is being cut out and angled foot board added to drivers side [ as I would like a foot bar on the mechanics side ] then pedals fitted so I can see where on the chassis it will end up.

until I determine the hight of the drivers seat I cannot see how close the firewall can be to it.

With the seats at this height I think the body height can be at the 54" from the floor , as shown by the dotted line.

such fun Paul
 
#62 ·
Only just noticed this thread. a build inspired from one of those "I don't care if I die, I'm gonna be the fastest" land speed record creations, that's just so damn cool!!!! will be watching this thread.
 
#63 · (Edited)
Hi all

Thanks for your valuable input , been tinkering again !

First up the Bugatti type 35 is considered a 1 1/2 seater with a cockpit width of 32" [ very close to my 34" first try ], this has the following consequences :-



As you can see the driver has ever thing beyond his armpit outside the car , and the passenger has no choice but to hug the driver as the seats are not staggered . not desirable in a road car.

So between 40" and 42" seems to be a comfortable width , a good 20% greater than 34" ?

So this a an attempt at 40" ish , I have actually left 1.5" each side for the thickness of the sides :-



I think I can still have the stagger in both height and distance from front , this allows a bit of creative licence as I can have the seats almost 5" apart and also 1" from the sides and get below 40" even thought the seats are 17" wide ? As the stagger puts the shoulders overlapping in the 5" space between the seats but the drivers in front of the mechanics so there is no conflict.

Before you ask with increasing age comes deafness and combined with the wind noise probably means a intercom/radio anyway so the stagger will only be mildly annoying I hope oh and BLOODY cool ?



Central portion of firewall , just enough to mount pedals on and will be cut vertically on the red lines as I think it can be the same width as the chassis , it is not high enough yet.

This will allow me to determine my eye line and where I want the cockpit/dashboard and then I can experiment with a separate curved bit I can just screw to the top , if I get the curve wrong just make a new top bit instead of scrapping the whole firewall and having to start again ...... well that's the theory :tup:



Sort of where pedals will be going when I have determined the width and so where the drivers seat is.
gear stick was offset in van to right , however there are other holes in the gear stick remote to mount it vertically ;);)



Engine side using original radiator , looks like it would be better swapped for a taller , narrower one ? any ideas which one ?
That would allow a greater slope on the piece of wood running from the firewall to radiator in the approximate position of the bonnet sides.



So the side view , as you can see the firewall is not up against the engine ?

2 reasons.

a) plenty of room and space in the body , so free space here could maybe used for battery/tools one side and internal spare wheel the other ?

b) expansion space for bigger engine !!! should be able to get a 6 pot in if needs be and by trimming the floor boards accommodate it's gearbox....

Forward planning who'ave thunk it ?

regards Paul
 
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