Brakes, dammed brakes , arrghhh
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  1. #1
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    redoxide is offline

    Brakes, dammed brakes , arrghhh

    Well here we go, been giving a mate a help with what was percieved to be a brake pull on his car.

    I dont want to give any ideas of what I think it is away as I want to see if anyone else come up with a possible solution to a very annoying problem.

    Vehicle : Ford Model A coupe

    front brakes : Wilson welding back plates with Buick finned drums

    Rear brakes, Stock chevy ( old 10 bolt rear end)

    Master cylinder : 60s chevy truck ( the one with the tandem clutch master )

    brake pipes are american standard steel 1/4 inch


    OK when the car was brought in to the UK it was fitted with 40 Ford front brakes and had a pull to the left..

    due to the brake pull and in search of much coolness, the front brakes were changed to the wilson welding set up. The idea here was to upgrade and solve the pulling issue in one hit...

    All new brake components were used

    guess what ,,,, the car still pulled left .. ?

    much bleeding and adjusting made zero difference.

    About this time I was drafted in, I just live around the corner, so its handy

    Ive never been convinced it was a brake problem, especially since it had the same issue with the previous brake set up..

    Any way, I stripped the entire brake system, cleaned out all of the cylinders checked the seals adjusted everything properly, checked wheel bearings cleaned and greased those beveled the front shoes and reasembled having adjusted everything.

    Bled the system back to front, best pedal it ever had...

    Took it for a drive and several applications of the brake later the car pulled to the left, exactly as it had been doing previously..

    OK back to the drawing board, fronts are fine rears are fine fluids running freely, no brake binding while jacked up all wheels spinning freely and stop dead when brakes applied with no residual binding when the pedal is released..

    I was never convinced the brakes were a problem but went back in there, made new metal brake pipes, eliminating any leaks or crushing damage ( of which there were none) swapped the master cylinder for a new one out the box, and fitted new flexis..

    Guess what..... EXACTLY THE SAME PULL TO THE LEFT.

    I must add that the owner was convinced it was possibly a line problem and for purposes of elimination that the master cylinder would be replaced .... there ony $35 so no real harm swapping it out anyway ..

    So with still no progress but pretty much the entire brake system replaced in desperation I swapped the wheel cylinders side for side re bled the system for the umpteenth time, took it out and it STILLL FECKIN PULLED LEFT......

    So far we have eliminated the actual brake set up, the wheel cylinders, the master cylinder, the brake flexis, metal brake pipes, air , and fluid ..

    the wheel bearings are good, and I cleaned and repacked them for good measure..slight play in the kingpins but nothing excessive, tyre pressures are equal, tyres are nearly new

    If you brake a few times and jump out to check the front drums the nearside drum is pretty hot while the right is still cool,

    Brake as per an emergency stop viz hammer on the brake, it stops in a straight line, brake lightly and progressively it pulls hard to the left ..

    Adusters are free and greased up and adjustment couldnt be more equal, its so basic you cant go wrong.... or can you !!!

    The steering is the usual vega box which was brand new several months ago, ( remember can still pulled with all the old stuff on)

    I get the impression that the car always wants to pull left, braking just magnifies the problem... and the reason why I think its more a steering/ suspension problem manifesting itself as a brake pull and somehow causing the left brake to do more work than it needs to

    The car did break a perch pin and this was replaced but still never fixed the left pull problem..

    Short or stripping the car and rebuilding it, checking and replacing as you go, im kinda stumped, Ive checked the wishbone, split ends are fine no excess wear in ball joints spring bushes are good, shox are old but look OK no leaks..

    Im buggered if I know and I dont own the car to have time to check it completely other than what Ive already done..

    Just wondered if anyone has had a similar problem and got to the bottom of it ?

    Hope you can help

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  3. #2
    Off the Xmas card list kapri's Avatar
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    Yes.

  4. #3
    Gym Junkie chrisvs's Avatar
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    Axles not parallel, tracking not correct
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    Official RnS Addict russ6120's Avatar
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    I'd go with axles not parallel too. I don't know what the master cylinder looks like, but it's it a dual circuit maybe the pipe work to it is wrong......one circuit found one side instead of front/rear????

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    Nowheresville JackGriffin's Avatar
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    You said you swapped cylinders from side to side but didn't mention the drums? Is one cut oversize, or differently to the other? If they are different, have the shoes been matched to one side only (the left?).
    Screw EU

  8. #6
    Grown up? Never!
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    I'm going with the front axle being bent/twisted or at least not parallel as has been said already.

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    Rods 'n' Sods Junkie paul52eight's Avatar
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    has it got self energising brakes ? if so are shoes the right way around, don't want to tell anyone how to suck eggs, but I know my buick shoes were different to the norm aswell as leading edges one lining is half as long and half as thick as the other, primary & secondary, google self energising brakes, paul
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  10. #8
    Off the Xmas card list kapri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvs View Post
    Axles not parallel, tracking not correct
    I was going to recommend a laser 4 wheel alignment as it will give camber /caster / tracking and relation of one axle to another. Wouldn't be the first rod I've seen where the axle is set up parallel to the front member but not the rear axle.

    Just jack in the middle to hold up car but not unload suspension. Undo wishbone /hairpin fittings to chassis and they should remain in the same place meaning easy replacement of bolt . If you have to push one side down more than the other this will twist axle and increase caster making it pull to that side.

    Put on ground and block front wheels. Have someone push the rear of the car backwards and forwards against the bricks whilst checking for slop on bushing to chassis on hairpin / wishbone and also for ovality in perch hole and kingpin as it loads up under braking. I've seen trackrod ends that to eye and manual inspection seen fine but would slide internally under load effectively changing wheelbase .

    Any signs of differences on tyres ? Have you tried swapping from side to side ? I've had twisted carcasses cause pulling as well.
    Last edited by kapri; 16-05-2016 at 21:19.

  11. #9
    sid
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    i would be with someone above thinking is the plumbing going where you think if the drums are a different temp after a run,
    some people still pipe front left to rear right for odd reasons that used to make my mini brake like yours does (although thats just British oddness as far as i can tell), just follow one port from the master that goes to a tee piece and make sure that one only feeds one axle.

  12. #10
    Official RnS Addict mygasser's Avatar
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    as well as the above advice the one thing you haven't mentioned changing/checking are the brake flexis.
    need a job done on your project? i may be able to help.

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