cellulose or two pack if im spraying my car?? - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Rods 'n' Sods Junkie
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    arsenic is offline
    Fair enough @ least the options are all on the table

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  3. #12
    Official RnS Addict technofobe54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capriv8 View Post
    Hello, new chap, but after some experianced advice please!

    i am respraying my more sensible car, and it turns out its a pearl base colour, so, how do i do it and how much, if i go 2 pack?

    i speayed my capri last year with straight cellulose and it came out ok, but i have never applied any 2 pack

    i know about breathing and will do it with the door open and a good mask!

    any advice at all about types, quantites of paint/lacquer from anyone whos done it would be much appreciated, or if i go celly over the existing, how do i stop a reaction, and what do i use to get a good adhesion to the plastics (bumpers, side skirts etc)?

    its an r32 skyline, so about the size of a sierra id estimate

    thanks
    Hey, i have used cellulose for years, easiest thing to mix and use. I use a good mask and to be honest i have sprayed every car i've had in the driveway, i'm probably not the only one! and no one believes me when they see the results.
    People tell me it can't be done, but all you do is pick your day i.e not boiling hot so it dries before you get it on, no wind, maybe a slight breeze and shoot it.
    The best thing about celly is that it dries so fast that mistakes are very easy to rectify. Make a balls of it, wait half an hour, rub the offending area then flash it in, any overspray can then be flatted and compounded.

    Having said that i have just painted my F100 in pearl base coat (just add thinner) and 1k ready to use clear (just pour straight in to your pot) all on top of celly primer and it looks the business, that couldn't be easier either, just take you time and do the prep right.
    Last edited by technofobe54; 19-06-2011 at 19:18.

  4. #13
    Compulsive chicken choker English Impala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arsenic View Post
    Fair enough @ least the options are all on the table
    Its difficult to know what to do for the best with there being so much information on the different systems out there. I am NO pro-painter, but I used to be a commercial vehicle painter back in the mid 80's and back then polyurethane * synthetic was the order of the day and in the slack H&S days, wearing a mask was for girls & wimps. Those that did use a mask used one that resembled a sheet of cooton wool held in place with a thin piece of metal and elastic. The guy that owned the place now suffers badly with asthma........ Back then we did trial a non-iso 2K system (called Auto Nova I think), from memory it was okay, but I haven't heard of it for ages so I guess it isn't around.

    Another option is to find a professional who is happy for you to do the prep & let him paint it to save costs. I've had one car painted professionally back in the mid 90's and although it was just a body shell that had been bare metalled, the cost still came to £1600 and that was with cheap rates because my brother in law worked there, so professional painting is out of the reach of most folks for a "hobby" car.

    There are those that will happily use 2K while holding their breath & those that won't go near it. Personnally I do use it, but I like to think I understand the H&S side and I don't use it where it will cause a nuisance to others around me. But, as the OP stated he has asthma already, I'd be extra carefull about using any paint system without going 101% over the top on H&S.

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  6. #14
    Official RnS Addict WB54's Avatar
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    Celly v 2K, both equally bad, only difference is you can buy a short duration mask which is suitable for Celly. Having done the research ref 2K masks, I came to the conclusion, the 2K masks are being sold without explaining the degree of protection they provide, ie not 100% depite being fresh,unclogged and within the hrs of usage. Only way (for me ) with 2K is airfed, celly or base and single pack clear with a GOOD mask. Not as good as 2K but better than asthma, cancer or any other ****.

    Air fed ain't a fix all either. You need the proper charcoal filters, compressors located away from fumes etc. Can't imagine breathing compressed air full of oil vapour, stagnant condensation etc is much better for you.

  7. #15
    Official RnS Addict chucks41's Avatar
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    There are polyester & water based paints to consider. I've sprayed celly in the past by far the easiest to spray in a home garage & if you want a deeper glossier finish mix some colour with a final coat of lacquer.
    If your using one of the more modern systems you really need a high volume low pressure gun (HVLP). Garages now use a lot of water based systems & are supposed to be more environmentally friendly & safer. Although I had problems spraying poly paint, definitely going to invest in air fed mask next time.
    Best to ask paint supplier & get a data sheet on how to use the paint & what precautions you need to take.
    The problem with the none celly systems is unless you have a heated paint booth they stay tacky for a good 20-30 minutes in which time every ******* fly & lump of grit want to make love to your car. Be prepared to do a lot of colour sanding & lots of coats, but you get better results straight from the gun & don't be afraid to thin final coats more than data sheet recommends.
    Choose correct speed thinners/hardeners & try to do it on a dry day when temps are 15deg plus.
    Here is an example of some of our cars sprayed in a sectional concrete garage.
    Midget sprayed with celly & lacquer. Syphon spray gun @ 60psi


    Cortina Polyester based candy red over silver. HVLP gun @ 40psi


    Definitely use a buffer/isolator if spraying celly over modern finish & as said don't sand it before spraying primer over it.
    Best to talk to a paint supplier as celly colours are now quite hard to source.
    Amounts depend on size of car, colour of primer & top coat colours, lighter colours need more coats, get a litre more than you think saves going back & trying to match batches. There's always some touching up needed later.
    Hope I haven't bored you too much but it's a big subject & it's something you can only really learn as an amateur by cocking up.
    Good luck
    Chucks
    Last edited by chucks41; 20-06-2011 at 00:37.
    Too much time on my hands. Too little money in my pocket

  8. #16
    Official RnS Addict Bel Air Lugosi's Avatar
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    After a lot of umming and aaarrring by the health and safety boffins. 2pack was being phased out in the trade, in favour of water based paint.
    This water based stuff still needed a 2k laquer on top to stop the rain washing it off!!! Always thought it was a stupid idea.

    Now it seems that water based is being phased back out because body shops all over the country are complaining it takes twice as long to dry, therefore losing them time and money.

    2k always seems to give a better finish. celly needs buffing every once in a while, as it tends to dull off in my experience.
    I would save a few quid and find someone that does it for a living. Give him <or her> a few quid to slap 2pack on it. Youll get a better job.
    If its low n black n shiny n sparkley n loud n spitting fire....... It's probably mine.
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  9. #17
    Official RnS Addict WB54's Avatar
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    Ian , Polyester paint ? is this 2 pack or single ?

  10. #18
    Official RnS Addict chucks41's Avatar
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    Hi Phil, I only spray once in a blue moon but the paint factors who sold it to me advised me it was Lechler Macrofan paint, basically the same process as for the water based paint single pack base coat (paint & thinner)
    then with the macrofan lacquer (lac, thinner & activator) supposedly none isocyanate so no need for air fed mask, bought recommended twin filter mask (3M organic vapour disposable) but I had a bad reaction to the thinner towards the end of spraying the car & ended up with bronchitis for a couple of weeks & now seem to be hypersensetive to it even if I'm cleaning something with the thinners.
    Maybe I should of changed the mask a couple of times as I only used the one for all the car, no sense of smell so don't know if the mask was doing it's job.
    I couldn't fault the paint just that it stayed tacky for a good half hour & all the airborne crap in the county seemed to appear out of nowhere & deposit on the car. I think I sprayed 23 coats & cut back 22
    If I spray it again I'm going to get an air fed or at least a full face iso mask.
    If you need any more info I'll dig the data sheet out & let you know for sure.
    Ian
    Too much time on my hands. Too little money in my pocket

  11. #19
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    Scampy And Chips is offline
    ive worked in both small and large bodyshops and never had problemes with water base paints, flash off times between coats are longer with h20 base coats (wouldnt recomend in a garage though due to not alot of air movement and it would take ages)we have never used the air dryers with h20 base as by the time you have put a coat on gone out to the another oven or gone to mask a car up it would be dry and ready for another coat.
    ive never been a fan of celly or polly (including poly primers) due to finish quality and longitivity.
    as said 15 deg' plus 1k base and a 2k clear coat you cant go wrong, dont rush or hammer on the base coats (remember its only a colour and it wont hide blemish's in poor prep or aid finish) just a good covering coats are dependant on what base it is some are good some are rubbish, also remeber your drop coat on met' base's some people say it makes no difference but i think it does.
    For the clear coat, as for any job its best completly striped, i.e handles trims ect and off car or adjasent if posssible, as to much clear coat will end up in a major build up on masked edges and will be a headache for de masking and or flaky paint in the future and those horrid edges you see on poor jobs.
    as said a thinner last coat is the way to go but practise is best on an old panel befor you do a big job and screw it.

    as for health and saftey if you that worrid about your health pay someone to do it as no matter what happens at some point you will breath some fumes get some thinners on ya body filler blah blah blah.
    old engine oil is just as toxic as are most things in this life.

    good luck.
    Pete

  12. #20
    Rods 'n' Sods Junkie
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    capriv8 is offline
    thanks for all the advice, think i will have to go cellulose and stick to what i know, with the blocker coats early doors once ive flatted the inches of filler down lol

    i arent going to use the same colour, im going to get some ford graphite grey thats a straight metallic, and a near match, as there are a lot of suppliers on fleabay

    the health concerns with the 2k, 1k paints etc are not worth the risk i dont think, plus they arent a kin to a dusty little garage job, think it will be cellulose and cut!

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