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  1. #11
    Carburation 'sucks' Roscobbc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firebird68 View Post
    Sorry if I'm getting obsessive on this one but this subject really bugs me. I get the basic science that moisture trapped in the paint is' breaking out' ,but there almost seems to be no escape from this problem and the amount of money spent on the job almost seems irrelevant .
    The 73 Camaro I had painted cheaply [over several previous layers+ various local repairs],it blistered but not terrible...
    My Firebird was sanded down to the 'factory' topcoat ,sprayed with a sealer by me, then taken to a well established painter who mostly restores classic cars. So the sprayer is a professional ,using good equipment. When freshly painted it was an excellent 'driver quality' job just what I wanted...but slowly went from small blisters to a total mess!
    My last example is a friend's 1st gen Camaro. Taken to bare metal by a top quality painter prep, primed sprayed to a really beautiful show standard. Couple of years later some small bubbles begining to show up
    One has to question the traditional method of wet 'n' dry sanding - if the filler/primer/paint finishes are moisture absorbent then wet sanding and washing down with water or even solvents is likely to cause problems if not given sufficient time to dry out. Perhaps you need to select the time of the year to have the paint job done if you don't want it effected by condensation issues in the painters premises. Would 'drying off' a wet sanded car in a heated booth cause moisture long trapped under the surface to create issues where perhaps if the car was finished under normal atmospheric conditions it would remained dormant (only to raise-up at a later time)?

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  3. #12
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    You make some good points Roscobbc, I've always used the wet sand method both to keep the dust to a minimum and to stop the paper clogging. The thing is over the years I have done some fairly big repairs on some of my cars [I don't do it as a trade/for a living]and these seem to have lasted better than some of the total resprays done by the pros. Now got to the point where I'd be scared to pay for the really top job , maybe your idea of doing it in the warm dry time of year is the answer!

  4. #13
    Full Time Metal Junkie ProMetalShop's Avatar
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    Rosco made some great points. I quit painting back around 2002 to concentrate just on the sheet metal part of the job. I remember thinking how much material was costing raising the cost of the overall job, like how much can you charge for these jobs?
    The last six to eight years I had installed infra-tech heating to dry the primers and bring the body to an ambient temperature.
    This would greatly reduce the opportunity for moisture to be trapped in the primer coats.
    The learning curve was what temp to keep the body at while spraying to not flash the base coat to the point of no adhesion.
    Once I got the system in order and the timing of the infra-tech versus coatings my jobs had improved the right out of the booth finish. Normally we would (before the infra-tech) let the car in the booth or if weather permitted out in the front yard in the sunlight for a week or two before we would flat sand and buff.
    The great part of this new inferred curing was the paint and or top coats would shrink so any small imperfection would be able to flat sand and buff out right away before delivery.
    Here is a sample of one of our finished jobs......


    Here is one we did for PPG back in 1998 as a pro car for Radiance





    Here is our 41 Willys we painted back in 1996 I have a whole build they did an article on. If I can dig it up (before digital cameras ) I will post more.





    The Willys is done in a color we made from two tints top coated with blue pearl, stunning changes in lite from purple to blue highlights....
    The aqua colored car next to it is a friends 33 Plymouth we painted 6 years before hand and was back for a drop axle up date after a bad accident . I know I have the photo's of the accident I will dig them up and load them for you.
    Last edited by ProMetalShop; 26-12-2009 at 23:09.
    Thanks Steve
    Shaping Metal Is Often Easier Than Shaping Minds

    http://chevylegends.com/forum/index.php

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  6. #14
    Carburation 'sucks' Roscobbc's Avatar
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    Very interesting comments - I haven't done any body painting in a long while - at some point my Vette looks as though it will need some sectioning round the o/f front wheel opening and a hood re-paint - may consider doing it myself - in late spring/early summer (after reading some of the above comments)

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    Thanks for your input regarding the infra red Steve, I definitely think you have part of the answer here. After all it must heat the inner layers and drive moisture out before new paint is applied , so in theory if the atmosphere is dry and the water filtration on my compressor is OK then micro blistering should be a thing of the past.
    Liking your paint, great work!

  8. #16
    I'm a grown up drunk! chevy2's Avatar
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    My Nova was painted by Larry Ward nearly 7 years back,
    he painted plenty of other rods and muscle cars in that same oven over several years, also had an in-line air dryer, none of which have any problems worth mentioning except one,
    a red 65 el-camino owned by one of our club members, Ian who owned it had no garage space for it as his camaro was in there,
    his wife bought him one of those big dollar custom fit outdoor breathable covers,
    he always had it covered, never put it on if the truck was wet,
    within a couple of years the tops of the wings, bonnet and roof all had plenty of micro blisters, basically all the surfaces where the cover rested on, all the sides were fine,

    Larry doesn't cover any of his cars for any long periods of time, me neither,
    his opinion is it's best to leave it exposed allowing the paint to breath,

    might be a different story covering a car thats garaged as there isn't such a moisture problem.

  9. #17
    Carburation 'sucks' Roscobbc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firebird68 View Post
    Thanks for your input regarding the infra red Steve, I definitely think you have part of the answer here. After all it must heat the inner layers and drive moisture out before new paint is applied , so in theory if the atmosphere is dry and the water filtration on my compressor is OK then micro blistering should be a thing of the past.
    Liking your paint, great work!
    While we are talking about infra red heating I work for a company that are agents for this type of heating - although our heaters are 1 and 2 KW domestic/light commercial units, not specifically for auto trade use - interestingly there is a IP65 weatherproof unit, suitable for use in all external weathers!

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    Official RnS Addict crumble's Avatar
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    my thames van is in a paint shop at the moment. The old owner kept it coverd and its suffered with micro blistering on the roof bonnet and wing tops.

  11. #19
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    [QUOTE=chevy2;75490]My Nova was painted by Larry Ward nearly 7 years back,


    Larry doesn't cover any of his cars for any long periods of time, me neither,
    his opinion is it's best to leave it exposed allowing the paint to breath,

    I hope this is the final answer to our problem ,I know when my car get re-done I will be painting it in summer with infra red and when its finished, NO MORE COVERS !

  12. #20
    Exceeded sell by date Plumpcars's Avatar
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    A mate of mine had a 70 RT Charger 4spd. in triple black which was restored including a bare metal paint job. The car was an absolute picture and sold to a guy who kept it in a heated garage for a number of years. It then changed hands again and came to live outdoors with me for a short while as a favour. Within a couple of months a chunk of paint came off a rear quarter. I rang the owner and explained that it wasn't caused by my kids it literally just fell off. Within months the whole car was nearly back to bare metal, the paint came off in sheets. Amazing what a change in climate can do even after a number of years.
    I think the wet sanding of primers is as much to blame for micro blisters as anything else.

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