Are all RV8 sumps interchangeable?
i.e. 3.5 fit on a 4.6?
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Are all RV8 sumps interchangeable?
i.e. 3.5 fit on a 4.6?
The flange pattern is the same, but I'm not sure about oil pumps/oil pickups as I use a dry sump setup on mine.
Thanks for that. Looks like I may have to change pick up then.
Jeff
Yes the sump wil fit our Granny tow car has had a couple of Rovers the latest one being a 4.6 Rangey mill. The 4.6 uses the new crank driven oil pump, which is wonderful as opposed to the 50's Buick one it had in it's earlier incarnations. We used the intermeadiate front cover which uses the serpentine belt front end the superb new oil pump and a dissy which is great if you dont want to use all the Gems injection and computer. John Eals Developments was a great help in parts at the right price. The 4.6 does not rev but it has loads of torque. Last year sat at the lights on the M60/62 interchange a couple of chavs in a Corsa pulled up next to us and were gawping at the pop on the trailer and the granny towing it, they were a bit gobsmacked when I hit the loud pedal and out dragged them up the ramp!:wave:
I want to add my twin turbos and the sump I have came off the 3500 and is the proper Janspeed one with the drains and extra baffles in.
Did you use the Gems or did you go with a carb and dizzy?
Let me say, NO they do not interchange, the Later engine timing covers have a different front edge to accept the serp oil pump, the only way to do the 3.5-4.6 sump swap would be change the oil pump back to the old style, where you have to change cam, timing gear and all the front of the engine, and get a spacer from JE engineering for the crank. the other problem with the Jems engine will be the depth of the sump. I think the 4.6 stroke will clout the 3.5 sump, also the 4.6 sump is not as shallow as the 3.5 as it has a suction pipe running along the length of the engine into the bottom of the pump, where the early block has a short pickup that bolts to a boss on the block skirt
A advantage of the 4.6 Jems engine is its about 35-40mm shorter than any of the V belt engines
My later style Jems sump with one square corner
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture047.jpg
and my earlier sump with both corners angled
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...3022008604.jpg
Was that the motor you got from me a couple of years ago?
Thats the one, I have been busy building things, so It went on the back boiler, but I will be into it soon, I have other stuff to make for it, all the ancillary stuff has been removed and bracket cast to run just the alt, pump and Idler pulley, obviously the cast sump and Im still making a valley plate for it,
I am pretty sure the engine in our granny has a 3.5/3.9 sump and it is a 4.6 cross bolted Rangey block. We used the "intermeadiate" front cover which was only made for around 18 months, before the Gems engine. It still uses the new crank driven oil pump, but has a dissy mounting, the w/pump is reverse rotation because it is driven off the back side of the serpentine belt. We used a perfomance 3.5 type cam with trust plate to stop cam walk the plate came from John Eals and I think the was a little bit of macine work to make it fit
The engine was completed using a dual plane mainfold and a 500 Edelbrock carb and electronic dissy trigering the MSD.
It's a few years since I built this engine, and I have a recollection of a spacer need on the crank, and if you use the oil cooler outlet and inlet there is something weird about them,and they have to be the right Range Rover fittings, but being as I had to use a remote filter anyway, I just put a take off plate on the oil filter fitting.
For the oil pump fittings, I think the fittings can be converted to -12 to 20mm JIC fittings if you machine off the taper seat, the Rover fitting has a crimped flange on the pipe and a O ring fitted to that which is clamped into the bottom of threaded hole.
The serp intermediate cover was only fitted to 4.0 discos, they sell for good money on EBay if you can find one.
I dont think the 3.5 sump will clear the oil pickup pipe for the annular pump, I may be wrong, Ill check tomorrow,
Ian,
Have you still got the manual flywheel that you had with the engine?
Jeff
Sorry mate thats running in a off-roader around the corner from me
Ive got a manual flywheel in my van coming up to you saturday mate
Thinking about running Gems ECU for the time being (got a 4.6 for a song complete) so will need a manual gems flywheel.
Either that or get the SD1 machined with the P38 timing marks.
Just to clarify what has been said so far.
All RV8 sumps are NOT interchangeable. Two sump patterns are available, early and late type.
If your front cover has a dizzy with either a crank driven oil pump or a dizzy driven oil pump, then you can fit the early type sump complete with oil pickup. This oil pickup bolts directly to the block roughly mid point of the engine.
If your front cover does not have a dizzy then you need the later sump which has a long oil pick up which bolts to the underside of the front cover.
The shape of the later sump is different at the front and has 1 extra bolt in the flange pattern.
Naturally, no matter what sump you use, you need to check clearance of the crank. For the larger stoke engines you may need to panel beat the sump near con rod no2.
If you have a crank driven oil pump and you want to use the standard oil cooler take off points, then unless you use the OE return pipe the oil will bypass the oil cooler. This return pipe has a special end piece which ensures flow around the cooler. Therefore a basic m20 jic connection will not work unless you somehow incorporate the original equipment end detail.
Regards Denis
Denis,
Thanks for the reply, interesting info. The engine that I have is out of a 1995 HSE so I'm unsure which type of sump this will have. I'll keep an eye out for the oil cooler business too
Jeff
Hi Jeff,Quote:
Originally Posted by fozwanger
If your engine has a Distributer then the early type sumps will fit. These sumps are from the P5's P6's SD1 and 3.9/4.2 lumps.
If the engine does not have a dizzy then the later sump will fit. These are from 4.0/4.6 lumps without a distributer.
The early sumps have a symmetrical bolt/flange layout whereas the later have one front corner cut at 45 degrees to suit the oil filter location.
Which type you need is basically down to whether the front cover has a dizzy or not and not based on the type of engine block as all blocks are externally the same.
Regards Denis
Den,
The oil cooler pipes are intriguing me, what do I need for the oil to flow, an Inline pressure relief valve?
Ian,Quote:
Originally Posted by v8ian
I must assume that you do not have the OE oil cooler pipes as if you did all would become clear.
The gallery from the oil pump to filter is uniterrupted and is like that to suit versions without an oil cooler. The OE oil cooler return pipe has an extension on it which pokes about 30mm beyond the o ring. This extension is blocked at the end and prevents the flow of oil coming directly from the pump. The extension also has a hole in the side which allows oil to flow to the filter after it has gone through the cooler. Hope that makes sense. I suppose if you somehow plug the gallery close to the filter inlet it would work the same. Or ali weld an extension like the OE item to the M20 fitting. I am going to use the end of the OE pipe and fit a 1/2" solid pipe to SS braided hose adapters.
Regards Den
Hopefully collecting the motor in the next week or 2 so I'll keep you posted. If it's the earlier type that'll help me out no end (with all other things as well)
Jeff
Jeff, If the engine is original and you know it's capacity (3.9 or 4.0 or 4.6) then the sump type can be identified now. Except if it came from a TVR.Quote:
Originally Posted by fozwanger
Regards Denis
That sounds like its a system that only runs when the oil pump is running on the pressure relief valve, do you know if the cooler outfeed runs to sump or engine??Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVONMAN
Ian, The cooler outfeed (ie return pipe) runs into the filter and through the filter to the engine gallery. The relief valve returns oil to the pump inlet and is separate to the oil cooler circuit.
Cheers Den
Den,
1995 4.6 rangy
Jeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVONMAN
Jeff, It will therefore NOT have a dizzy and will have/need the later sump with long pickup. Unless of course you fit a front cover with a dizzy and run carbs or an appropriate ECU.Quote:
Originally Posted by fozwanger
Regards Denis
That explains it then, we were both right:cool: the blocks are all the same sump flange and the front covers are different!
Regarding the oil cooler plumbing, in many RV8 instalations the oil filter is a problem poking so far fwd like it does amnd you usualy need to fit a remote filter, this is the way I found easiest to plumb the cooler in
Hi Bluegenepop,Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueGenePop
Yes indeed it's the front cover that descides the sump type. I have two RV8's and like you one has a remote filter /cooler take off . On the other the filter space is not a problem so I will be using the OE oil cooler take off points on the serp type cover which gives a neat arrangement.
Regards Denis
So will the 4.0 V8 manual flywheel trigger the ecu?
If the flywheel has the ring of tags on it's rear then yes it will trigger the ECU. You said earlier that yours was a 4.6, so is the flywheel from a 4.0?Quote:
Originally Posted by fozwanger
Regards Denis
Denis,
I'm using a manual box and the 4.6 was an auto so to save lots of grief I was wondering if it would be easier to use 4.0 manual flywheel to trigger the ecu. Just need to get it remapped
Jeff
Jeff. I assume you already have access to a 4.0 manual flywheel with timing tags on the rear. Not many of them going spare.Quote:
Originally Posted by fozwanger
Regards Denis
I've been offered one that's why I want to get it whilst its available
:-)