Steering weave on a Prefect - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Official RnS Addict Perfect65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    I havent driven one with the bellamy front end, just the stock beam and I reckon a lot of this was due to poor front shock location. What shocker settup is on yours. I am currently collecting parts for my 23 T project which will have a 1937 Ford Ten front axle which I am expecting interesting handling so will be watching this space.
    From my experience the standard front suspension steering can be improved a lot with a panhard rod and also telescopic dampers take away a lot of the roll. I am hoping eventually the Ballamy suspenson with teles will give stable steering straight line and cornering - wait and see.
    Greatest discombobulations to all my readers.

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  3. #22
    Official RnS Addict brading's Avatar
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    Sure with persaverance you will get there with the Bellamy set up.

  4. #23
    Official RnS Addict Perfect65's Avatar
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    I am still tentatively exploring my handling and steering problems. Having lowered the tyre pressures a little I found no noticeable difference but could go more. I did a few more miles today and one positive - found the speedo was just right compared to the satnav and only about 3 mph fast. At above 30mph and up to 60mph on smooth road the car was not too bad but steering quick and I would call it severe over-steer. When I tried some faster cornering it was scary. I am now set on increasing toe so thats the next thing. Another thing in the back of my thinking is the front spring rate. The car behaves particularly bad over uneven surfaces, tending to hop to one side. This could be the toe, or lack of, making me hold the car straight on the wheel rather than having the benefit of self centring and then when a bump comes along it releases the wheel to turn to the side. Of course having an over strong spring might not be helpful so time to bite the bullet and put theory into practical experiment. Good weather forecast so should get in some quality testing this week.
    Greatest discombobulations to all my readers.

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  6. #24
    I'm Not Jed Clampett stueeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect65 View Post
    The car behaves particularly bad over uneven surfaces, tending to hop to one side.
    Might be worth checking that part of the problem isn't bump steer. I have a Ballamy setup on one of my cars that works really well, but there do seem to be endless variations of how the centre track rod pivot was done on various Ballamy IFS units - I know that the very early ones didn't have a split track rod at all which must have made the steering "interesting" on bumpy roads. On any swing axle setup the inner track rod ends need to be pretty much in line with the axle pivots when the steering is straight ahead if there isn't going to be bump steer. Any bump steer will be obvious if you disconnect the leaf spring shackle with one side jacked up and then move the front axle end axle up and down.

    The weave/no self centreing problem does sound like there might not be enough Caster though.
    Stuart.
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  7. #25
    Off the Xmas card list kapri's Avatar
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    Too much toe out can make it very twitchy as well as the moment you hit a bump it wants to initiate a turn , been there / done that !

  8. #26
    Official RnS Addict Perfect65's Avatar
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    It definitely measures up with toe-in but I am in the process of giving it a wee bit more. Currently about 3.5mm but will try increase to a measured 6 or 7mm to see if any difference. I double checked the relative positions of the axle pivots and inner ball joints and they are in line viewed from above but the axle pivots are lower then the ball joints by about an inch which seems to me would increase toe-in when suspension is compressed if anything. The wishbones line up at the back end where they would have been originally in the ball cup and the spring seems to approximately match with the Ford spring. The Ballamy spring has more leaves but they are thinner so I am thinking the castor should be about same as the original but will measure this.
    Greatest discombobulations to all my readers.

  9. #27
    Official RnS Addict Perfect65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stueeee View Post
    Might be worth checking that part of the problem isn't bump steer. I have a Ballamy setup on one of my cars that works really well, but there do seem to be endless variations of how the centre track rod pivot was done on various Ballamy IFS units - I know that the very early ones didn't have a split track rod at all which must have made the steering "interesting" on bumpy roads. On any swing axle setup the inner track rod ends need to be pretty much in line with the axle pivots when the steering is straight ahead if there isn't going to be bump steer. Any bump steer will be obvious if you disconnect the leaf spring shackle with one side jacked up and then move the front axle end axle up and down.

    The weave/no self centreing problem does sound like there might not be enough Caster though.
    As you have one of these I would appreciate data you help with. PM sent
    Greatest discombobulations to all my readers.

  10. #28
    I'm Not Jed Clampett stueeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect65 View Post
    I double checked the relative positions of the axle pivots and inner ball joints and they are in line viewed from above but the axle pivots are lower then the ball joints by about an inch which seems to me would increase toe-in when suspension is compressed if anything.
    The misalignment of the inner track rod pivots with the axle pivots would just change the toe in when you have an equal two wheel bump as you say; but in a one wheel bump situation (i.e. ordinary suspension movement) the affected wheel will be attemping to steer the car as it rises and falls. Eliminating bump steer is really critical on racing cars, having a bit of bump steer on a road car isn't ideal, but isn't necessarily a major problem; Morris Minors came with some bump steer from the factory for their entire production life.

    I would be looking at (and possibly increasing) the caster angle before I did any other work with the steering, most cars run 5°, but it isn't a holy grail, I increased it to 7° on one of my Austin Sevens, the straight line stability was noticeably improved, still no "wheel kick" at low speeds; but the steering did become slightly heavier of course.

    Have also replied to your PM.
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  11. #29
    Official RnS Addict Perfect65's Avatar
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    I suppose the easiest way to increase castor would be to put a spacer under the rear wishbone pivot bracket, the one on the front of the gearbox crossmember. This should tilt the king pins backwards a little although also slightly misaligning the pivots in the front bracket. I dont think there is much scope elsewhere to adjust the castor except by putting a set/twist in the axle ends unless Ive missed a trick here. I will exhaust other avenues first. Thanks again everybody for advice and comments. Dave
    Greatest discombobulations to all my readers.

  12. #30
    Off the Xmas card list kapri's Avatar
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    Have you stuck an angle finder on the kingpins to see what you have at the moment? On a standard axle if you spaced the gearbox mount down you may have to put an angled spacer plate between the spring and crossmember to correct alignment, not sure how that would work on yours without seeing a picture of your set up.
    Last edited by kapri; 08-04-2015 at 20:48.

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