Rods 'n' Sods banner

21 - 40 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
To answer my original question.....
the 5 speed transit box in a mk6 - don't know bell house pattern.
the 6 speed in a mark 6 2006 transit is all new, getrag mt something, which stays in production until 2016 - when the transit goes adblu
the transit duratec/duratork bell housing has two releifs in the bell housing one for the 2.0 2.3 and 2.5 duratec , mazda or volvo petrol engine, starter motor, one on the other side for the diesel - duratorq
the 1.0 eco boost is a 3 cylinder - don't know the bell
the 1.3 and 1.6 ecoboost engines are sigma engines - nothing to do with duratec
the mk6 transit with the 6 speed getrag mt has the shifter tower, the 6 speed getrag changes to a cable shift into the mk7, its the same gearbox, you can unbolt the gearstick and fit the cable shift, they don't use a block plate, they have an internal hydraulic bearing, reverse switch and electronic speedometer drive - probably not 16,000 pulses a mile like a gm .
so that's the gearbox done, lets talk engines.

so the mk3 Mondeo receives a 2.0 litre duratec, it uses a cable throttle body, not electronic pedal. the sensor on top is a cam position sensor and not a variable valve servo. it uses a single 4 post coil pack
its a basic ecu set up in other words and much like a zetc I hope, can run stand alone with a stock ECU.
the mk 4 Mondeo in about 2006 gets the 2.0 duratec, BUT like the mk3 mx5 comes equipped with a fly by wire - fbw throttle pedal,
still not vvt, the trouble is, the pedal talks to the clocks, if you want to run an electronic pedal, you need use the cluster..(notes - this is probably why the connector fails on mk2 focus and Mondeo)still not impossible to do, but easier with a cable throttle
side notes
the mazda mx5 mk3 2.0 engine (they are available 1.8) has a two piece intake plenum, the part that bolts to the cylinder head is aluminium and the flaps are steel, the plenum is plastic and the throttle body comes out forwards - not right at the front but forwards, all the uk fords go out the back rwd, the ranger comes up and over the top and forwards, the Mondeo intake is all plastic and the flaps are plastic with plastic bushes - this is why they fail, as the housing is not aluminium and the flaps steel, like the mazda,which also I bet has the re-inforced rubber vent tube stock and not like the ford ones that split and gulp air and make the car rev when dumping crank case pressure.
more notes, at the rear of the head is the coolant outlet, its a big lump on a fwd Mondeo, on a mx5 mk3 its still lengthens the lump, - the mazda goes intake side, now what people who rwd a duratec use is the ford ranger outlet, one its tight to the head and the other it goes exhaust side and is higher - pickup = taller radiator larger frontage.
the bit toleft of the coolant outlet to rad top is the egr valve, the mx5 one mounts so the plug doesn't stick out.
more and more notes
If you fit the mx5 intake and flap housing, you need the specific crank case vent as I think they touch if you mix match them.
the mx5 and ranger engine mounts differ, but are much the same.
note - when you can't get a spanner onto the nut of the outlet from a front wheel drive ford power steering pump and have to take the car apart to change a 20p o-ring - fit the mazda one.
delete the air con compressor, measure for shorter belt, GET A MAZDA PUMP - different size pulley?
oh and check mk3 Mondeo is non dual mass flywheel and mk4 if it is dual mass, and the position of the hydraulic bearing to pressure plate, and if you need one of them pressure plate ringamethings
so that's basically the plan,
run the early mk3 Mondeo ecu, fuel pump, key, transponder , obd-2, fuel pump controller, return line vapour thing, charcoal cannister and use the in tank pump, buy a tanks inc poly tank and glue in the snap fit pump pick up in, and glue in the spin on fuel pump threaded part. keeping the stock cat and pre and post oxygen sensors., bolt the cable throttle to the mx5 intake, keep the throttle idle valve box thing.

so thast where I am at.

so just to fill you in on what happens next with the duratec 2.0 ford mazda engine....

Mondeo from 2006 to I think about 2011 stays much the same
2011 is the launch of the ecoboost, which is basically the same duratec block that receives a new cylinder head, its turbo charged with the intake ports have two runners into each pot - i.e. to each valve.
the same happens in the exhaust ports, 8 tracks, scavenge or something like that, but the turbo flange is if you like part of the head, with a single outlet - so you have if you like 8 pulses spinning the turbo hense I think the term eco boost,
the head I think gets variable valve timing,
that stays much the same from 2011 to 2016 or 17.
then out comes the twin scroll or twin turbine turbo, this might just be in the usa 2.3 mustang though... a smaller single turbo with two turbines, so the pulse charge is doing some real funky stuff, I think the fuel pump now goes on top of the head and is pumped by a single cam from a cam shaft, some say, they see here fuel pressures up to 2000 pounds per square inch, I say bollocks - the injectors do get bigger, - I think i noted the cam wheels are now odd sized, anyway what happens because of this is the block needs to be strengthend or something like that, it gets a forged steel crank and rods, funky squirt pistons and larger valves on the exhaust. so with the new block the bolt pattern changes - that kind of brings you up to present day, I think th etransit derv block changes to or it may not.
the last thing is.
the 2020 Mondeo hybrid.....
still uses the block and head from the pre 2010 duratec. has something yellow cabled and funky at the starter motor, maybe stop start.

thast all I have.

rwd 2.0 duratec, ranger rear outlet, mx5 egr, mx5 engine mounts for rwd, mx5 forwards fit intake with a transit box that's really short, hydraulic clutch, stock ECU and all the shmoo


thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
That would take me 2 days of valuable garage time to type that out. I hope you get some answers to help get you on the road.:incheek:

Good luck, Ron.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
yes finding the info is rather tricky, I have just done this with a zetec

anyways IF you were doing any kind of intake swap you wouldn't want to use the ford
note the idle control valve on a cable plenum, where does the other cable go to on the rottle body, one to the pedal, where do the other one go?
mx5
https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=c800f868f09d5e5abc3071081d8c7a35&oe=60452D49

note loom plug to ecu @ 8.54
5 seconds in - pause, the components on the board are
top left
obd-2 plug in port
to the righjt the silver box with the cable on it, the cable goes I think to the flaps in the intake, here I think he has it disconnected - but still plugged in, it alters the idle control or something like that
is there one in a mk3 Mondeo with a 2 litre duratec - or is the set up different?
to the right of that, the black thing with the little red button is the roll over switch, if upside down it shuts off the fuel controller box - where is this in a mk3 Mondeo?
noxt to this is the fuel pump controller - this is found under the rear seat drivers side in a focus - wher eis it in a mk3 Mondeo? - does it have one?
to the right of that is the starter switch, non switched live to that straight to starter solenoid.
to the right of that is the transponder ring with a key in it, the key has the chip that tallies with the ecu pats code
bottom left is the ecu, to the right is the fuel pump

one thing missing from this is the vapour return - its in the engine loom

notes on zetec, the fuel pressur is controlled on the rail, has a pressure switch, I think this simply turns the pump on and off when pressure is reached - say 30 psi - maybe?
is this the same on a mk3 Mondeo?
the crank positioning is set with a sensor looking back at the flywheel, the flywheel has holes drilled it it and one missing to set the crank positioning - note when fitting a Cosworth t5 to a zetec the 241mm clutch flywheel from retro ford is £450 plus vat
on a duratec they use an edis wheel on the front pulley for timig - great
note on a zetec st170 - it differs I think from the other zetecs in that there is no return fuel line to the tank, there is a line, but its the vapour return, goes to a charcoal cannister then into the tank - mighty confiusing
you neeed to connect the alternator to the starter, you will have a thin red wire hanging out of the alternator, this is the dash alt light wire I think.
erm a transit connect diesel starter fits a Cosworth bell housing and is smaller and betterer
you can get Cosworth bells with the fork out either side - or use a hydraulic bearing £££

so a t5 zetec conversion with 2.95 1st and a 070 cluster cossie inpt s10 tail if you can find one,hydraulic bearing and coss- to - zetec flywheel will probably cost you £3000, plus the cost of dials and a th350 slip yoke = £3500 mk6 transit, about £160 if you go and get it, and you get another cog inside
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Nobler, what do you do for a living ? You're not a civil servant by any chance ??
with regards legislation on emmisions of a 2.0 2020 duratec with the non turbo head?
I don't know what euro emmisions classification the 2.0 duratec as fitted to a 2020 has,
as its a hybrid, so must have an electrical motor driving it at the rear?
not sure on big brothers requirements for stop start either, but if you look closely at this engine for sale on the scrap yard in the sky
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-MON...r:2020&hash=item3b54b2d78f:g:uH8AAOSwOERf8Pmj
and follow the yellow lines to the starter motor, it would appear that it is in fact a stop start set up
dunno how though it would be possible to use it , if trying to use the ecu from a mk3 maondeo,
granted in a ideal world, I would favor It, and thanks for the advise it is worth looking into
do the emission ratings on the 2.0 duratec differ from its inception, are they contemporaneous considering the duration
 

·
Off the Xmas card list
Joined
·
24,022 Posts
with regards legislation on emmisions of a 2.0 2020 duratec with the non turbo head?
I don't know what euro emmisions classification the 2.0 duratec as fitted to a 2020 has,
as its a hybrid, so must have an electrical motor driving it at the rear?
not sure on big brothers requirements for stop start either, but if you look closely at this engine for sale on the scrap yard in the sky
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-MON...r:2020&hash=item3b54b2d78f:g:uH8AAOSwOERf8Pmj
and follow the yellow lines to the starter motor, it would appear that it is in fact a stop start set up
dunno how though it would be possible to use it , if trying to use the ecu from a mk3 maondeo,
granted in a ideal world, I would favor It, and thanks for the advise it is worth looking into
do the emission ratings on the 2.0 duratec differ from its inception, are they contemporaneous considering the duration
Why would thta be relevant to you if you are doing an 8 points build ? Are you doing a BIVA build then ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,082 Posts
Why would thta be relevant to you if you are doing an 8 points build ? Are you doing a BIVA build then ?
don't encourage him kev, you'll get a random long winded answer to a different question than the one you actually asked ;) :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
can you get on the bus
mk3 Mondeo 2.0 petrol duratec
mk4 Mondeo 2.0 petrol duratec
their differences explained in an unclear and muddied manner
go here
https://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6142
look at the second table
ford 1996 to 2003 - primary protocol is NOT can-bus it is SAE J1850 PWM
ford 2004 to 2009 - primary protocol is CAN - secondary is MS,
so the obd-2 plugs for forscan with the MS/sw switch will see all the modules
how it relates to a ford Mondeo with a 2.0 duratec
a mk3 Mondeo with a cable throttle will have its ecu up under the windscreen on the drivers side
a mk4 Mondeo with a fly by wire cable will have its ecu in the front bumper, its NOT an ecu that controls the whole car, its a power control module.
the ecu's - the mk3 Mondeo has an ecu, engine control, does speak to a fuel module, and an idle controller, plus a vapour return thingemy bob, sends a signal for speedo, odometer reading, maybe temperature - so you would actually want to use these signals.the burning question is, if you unplugged the dash, would the engine still run??? - i.e. the pats is in the ecu, the key chip is still connected to the ecu and thus the fuel pump controller - hmm
actual wheel turning and signals - doesn't carem no abs, even the gearboxes tone ring and speedo pick up will work with the stokc mk3 speedometer - that is cool.
so basically, get the whole loom on the floor and keep everything that is coming from the ecu -= done
the mk 4 is a pcm power control module,
the early type I think J11850 has two rows of 28 pins and on bolt holding the plug on
the mk4 pcm looks like it has three rows of pins , or three groups
do aftermarket pcm's run the SAE protocol
does an st170 ford focus use the SAE protocol?

can bus explained quite nicely
fuel pump relay location

fuel pump cut off switch location
https://talkford.com/community/topic/65512-fuel-pump-cut-off-switch/


fuel cut of switch location

2005 fuel rail
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mon...813341?hash=item3ff060c4dd:g:b7cAAOSwZqZaMjsW
regulated in th epump -job done?
2001 fuel rail
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-MON...4645845300fb985e75a1|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524
blow off valve and a fuel line return? - continuous pump?

square one on a 2007
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mon...976534?hash=item343afd4656:g:RxAAAOSw1CZgDsCZ
round one on a 2001
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mon...47bd9963373d1c9b3e18|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524
where the pipe going

zetec Mondeo
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=179921
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
Why would thta be relevant to you if you are doing an 8 points build ? Are you doing a BIVA build then ?
apologies for the late reply,
I think its just because you can change the engine on an 8 pointer, and if going through the process on changing the documents, IF it were at all possible, it would be right dandy it saying euro 6 upon it, that's all... maybe 5..

I wonder if I may have this opportunity to ask a question regarding the 8 points rule, I hope its not taking a liberty asking the United Kingdoms premier expert on such matters on this thread, I am personally enamoured with your seemingly life-long , thankless efforts with the hobby, I mean, even Worzel Gummage got a kiss from Aunt Sally for being outstanding in his field, what do you get for your time, devotion and passion? absolutely nothin, might I just say thank you .

Anyways enough arse kissing and the question ,
35-40 ford 50 pilot
is the stock rear crossmember and spring, with stock radius rods considered the suspension?

explanation - the plan

the plan is to use a stock transit gearbox and rubber do-nut with its stock prop shaft, the prop is two piece, where it articulates it will have a mount that will sit in the rear k member, the rear axle will be a transit dana44 or m220 dana spicer, fitted with the stock 35-40 radius rods and spring.
Now the thing I would like to do is, where the radius rods would have mounted on the torque tube, use this location / articulation plane to place
the prpp shafts joint, so the radius rods and prop shaft articulate about a common axis, PLUS the front part won't be moving SO, I can keep this snug to the scooped out stock frame cantre stiffening debarkle.

as a means to then..... fit aftermarket dana 44 shafts from a 56 f100, so as to use the stock 5.5'' pcd 11 by 1 3/4 brakes, so as to match the stock 1956 front f100 brakes, 11'' by 2'' , using the stock f100 hubs fitted to stock RIGHT HAND DRIVE 37-41 spindle (finally after 11 years searching found some) - fitted with 66 bronco self adjusters, running 1965 f100 15 by 5.5j wheels , with suzukli jimny tyres - same all round, and a 69 f100 master and servo with integral 10 ilb residual valves, hoping the transit dana 44 is 30 spline, oh it will have a flange as does the gearbox, so the slip or slinding section is at the central doofer bit, narrowing the rear axle to the same track width with the same et wheels as the front 37-40 axle [email protected] stock width about 57 and some inches, with a stock unsplit wishbone and reversed stock spring,
oh with a right hand drive saginaaw 800 series power steering box from a mk1 jeep Cherokee, finally found a new in the box one..... its a 71 Chevelle pitman that is 6'' long and shafre the stock drag link - you need to nibble 5mm of each of the threaded bits and refit the turn buckle, gives you a nice modern 2.5 turns lock to lock 1 1/4 each way like a new car, especially with a 15-16 inch steering wheel - more importantly right up against the dash, as there is no manual arm wrestling required at low speed, 1 finger reverse parking and all that,
oh more importantly, its all stock - steering geometry, erm, that funky stuff with steering arms pointing at the centre of the rear axle and that, note though, the turning circle with this is erally really short, I mean more than a taxi or triumph herald if you are even slightly vaguely interested, in as much as you will want to limit it at the stocps…..

doing it with the big fat rubber doofer on the rear of the box is I think just to keep the noise down, compared to say a t5 with real long out put shaft and slip yoke in a 37 - the joint is right under you and a full chat sounds like a screaming banshee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
this kind man has kindly listed the available ratios of transit van rear axles for you
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRANSIT-...ransit&hash=item3acdc671ba:g:rIYAAOSwN6FdDh63

3.73
3.91
4.27
5.11
whats groovy is its on the tag

was it a 3.91 in the 1956 f100

look closely at the bearing housing, the studs for the back plates are pressed in from the rear like a 1956 version
but the housing is wider

hmm, I wonder if you could machine a transit half shaft so it became a 1956 one 5 on 5.5'' - nope, brake offset will get you I bet
 

·
Off the Xmas card list
Joined
·
24,022 Posts
The answer is fuck all except abuse from many for stating facts , seem to have confused the message with the messemger Those who come to me for help when caught pay a donation to my local Hospice if I decide I am able to help .

I did get awarded a NSRA Hall of Fame a few years back , that lead to a couple of people I thought I was friendly with giving me absolute shit storm, calling me an arse licker etc ...anyone who knows me knows that to be untrue. Everyone gets 'me' ,warts and all.
 

·
Off the Xmas card list
Joined
·
24,022 Posts
This is a real simple question why have you not completed your previous projects ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,340 Posts
11 years to find a set of spindles.

Makes the 100 odd cars ive built in that time seam insignificant.


I and probably everyone else struggle to understand why you try yo over complicate just about everything.

You could just build something ,instead of researching part numbers,and trying to match mismatched parts.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,082 Posts
This is a real simple question why have you not completed your previous projects ?
'cos the research into combining mismatched parts would have to come to an end.
 

·
TechnicalTom
Joined
·
398 Posts
Its a good read , when stuck at home on a wintery evening .I too would like to hear the answer to the question " what projects have you completed" recently or a few photos .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,420 Posts
Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
DrivingEnthusiast: Inside the 2006 MX-5 Miata

you can run them on a zetec ecu!!!
the 2001-2005 Mondeo uce you just got with the key, IS a zetec ecu…. 120 pin
makes sense as they both share a 36 toothen edis - well its edis wheel to front on the duratec and its 36 tooves on the flywheel of the zetec.
utilise the
speedo signal - clicks per mile CAN be altered in the ecu
temp signal is either cold or hot - no sweeping guage
fuel guage - not from ecu anyplops
rev counter
alternator on off
oil is not a sweeping pressure sender merely a light on sub 15 ilb or whatever it is stock, which is groovy
tak ethe signals and fit them to a motorcycler style dash -

however, you do need to throw away the fbw throttle body... and fit a cable version
that has the IAC giblets as that does control the idle
https://esslingeracing.com/ford-4-v...BWKWNAEtdkZZ6O3h2yJcpyb9Jhuhpjk4JmP6JeDsGY9mM
bit spendy, but ho hum
plus, you cant use the vvt - got to fit a monderv non vvt engine

so that's nice

oh - fyi
the stick on the mazda is 29 inches from the bell to stick
I think that's a 5 speed

anyway, you can do a rough guage, looking at that engine and box in as much as a ranger water neck - instead onf the mazda - which you just bought you plank.... will be 2'' rather than the mazda = 3''
you can guage that on the iside of a 35-40 pick up can with a stock firewall, the stick will ne 22.5 minus 2''
call it a nice round 20 from the inside firewall back


interesting how the egr, is simply from the rear port, through the head via the valve, out through a 90 degree bend and dumped straight into the plenum, unlike the fords with plastic flaps, the mazda intake is two part, the flaps and their housing are in the metal, which is rear groovy

oh and dinally for this installation, gripping as it may not be

coil packer atop of plug

4 post coil pack stock zetec/2001-2005 mondeu
3 wires into 4 post coil pack
12v switched live
1st wire is front and back cylinder
2nd wire is middle - or whatever

that is it, ignition is lost spark in that it simply will fire it the other doofer anyway

30 mpg though, damn, I thought it would up there
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
Top