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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
read with interest the article in custom car about rods and the law, did anyone have there rod inspected by the police pre 1998 befor sva and have the v5 ammended with anything other than change of engine size for instance, as the article gives the idea that the v5 was ammended to read made up of new and used parts, a rod i had was inspected even a chassis number was stamped but the v5 was only changed to read a larger engine size , this was mid 70s.
 

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Like all things that is only a precis of the legislation . That's why when I've given advice over on the NSRA I have always spoken direct to anyone that needs it as what may seem an insignificant change can affect things.

Lets also get this clear before I get jumped on as well. I DON'T tell people how to build there cars I offer the legal options and any advise they want on existing vehicles .How they go about stuff is entirely their own choice but would be best done from an informed point of view rather than pub talk.

ACE has been attempting to halt the ever increasing legislation taking even more away from us and at least 3 of that team are on here and ,in fact, this forum , like the ACE site is hosted by our very own Roadrunna on here ( cheers yet again Si ).


So back to your question :)



If the car was a 'ground up' made from new and used parts that's EXACTLY what it will say on the logbook. Got one here with just that very thing stamped ( 1979)

Prior to '98 ,just the same as now, the onus was on the builder to present it for inspection. There used to a booklet supplied with your V5 that stated that ( like anyone ever reads those things:shake: ).

If it was a modified existing car then IF inspected it SHOULD have been issued a new chassis number, normally begininng with SAB** etc etc. As with all of these things it depends on the office and how well trained their staff were . Exactly the same as now, the official policy from Swansea may not be applied correctly at local level. Sometimes it is to 'your' advantage , sometimes not.


How do I know all this stuff for certain ? Well I was married to the local office manager for 10 years :shake:


EDIT. Also mid 70's the rules were different . You have a '65 - 84 set of rules ( able to keep original reg and description ) , a 84-98 set of rules(also issued with a Q if too modified ), and 98 to date set .
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
hi kev, so am i reading this right a rod built from an existing vehicle(pop for example) if built from 65-84 should have had the v5 ammended and SAB in the chassis number, what if the builder only changed the engine size , would the DVLA take this change date as date of other modifcations,or is this type of v5 worthless or will the DVLA accept the notified changes and allow it to keep its number and accept it as modified or maybe old tax disc or mot or an old magazine feature showing it in modified form would be proof of modification date.
 

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We fought and one such a case recently Paul !

The car was built in '73 and engine size notified at that time but NOT inspected so no SAB chassis number .That chassis sequence didn't come into use til late in that period anyway and even then down to how good the local office was. It is however cast iron that the car has been inspected IF you have a chassis number like that . Using verified period photos and signed letters from those who had known / worked on / owned the vehicle it was proved to exist in its fully modified form when the engine swap was done.

With the SVA /BIVA the vehicle has to be over 10 years old to be exempt and, if bulit here ,to have been in existence before '98 when the SVA came into being. DVLA even had a truce for kit cars whose logbook description was different to the appearance. That's where old MOTs become very important providing they show the vehicle as it APPEARS rather than how it was on the logbook.

From VOSAs point of view they want to see a logbook where every attempt has been made to notify DVLA of relevant changes, obviously the most important being body style .

I've recommended to anyone with concerns about their logbook to use the V888 form to get a history on their car. This will show every legally notifiable change ,who signed for it and when.

This is also where history sections become very important to protecting the future ! If you can get verified period photos of your car this will also go a long way to protecting against any possible issues .

I'm a 'black and white' type of person when it comes to legislation issues ,ie I want to see the rules all nicely clarified. However this could work against us and it's better to deal with any registration issues one case at a time . We at least know what rules were in place at any given time ( something that DVLA tend not to be aware of themselves as many of the people working there are younger than the system itself! ) and can use them to prove that most pre '98 SVA cars are exempt from fresh testing .

It really does depend on the car, how it was built, how it was notified etc etc. hence why it's back to talkingto us at ACE about specific situations rather than taking anything in writing as 100% for 'your' car .

However depending on when they were done they may require to be issued with a Q rather than retaining the plate they currently show.

ACE can be found at www.the-ace.org.uk
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
hi kev, thanks for that, its my other half wanting a rod, she was on the nsra as ailleen, we have been looking very loosly at finding a pop for her that was rodded years ago 70s, 80s that had been on the road but left forgotten, with a v6 or rover there must have been lots of these around at one time, we were thinking of finding something like this with a history and reworking it for her to use but have been concerned about future legalitys, but it seems from what your saying the worst that can happen to pre 98 built cars with a provable history is that they may end up on a Q paying roadtax, whats going to happen to all the post 98 built cars incorrectly registered in your opinion will they at some time have to pass a retrospective test sva/biva or will the dvla grant some sort of ammnesty ala kit cars, it would seem the only real way forward for legally registered future built rods is to play there game and get them tested, at least its more freedom than the rest of europe seems to enjoy
 

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I know of 3 cars, first hand talking to the owner reports of post 98 cars built cars that have lost their right to be registered and sent for SVA. The BIG problem that had come to light is that while DVLA send it for SVA it does not meet the criteria to go for SVA as it is, due to registered road use , a modified production car rather than an amateur built.

There is some light re this as the new BIVA test contains a section for modified production vehicles. This is still being clarified as to what specs will be required.

However ,due to the way legislation is framed in this country if you lose the right to reg the ONLY way to get back on the road is via the SVA. DVLA do not look at this in any other way other than the test is / was there it should have been used.

I've been dealing with one high profile car that is stuck in this very situation and is hoping that the new BIVA wil be its salvation.

Like I said pre 98 builds SHOULD be fine but everything is on a case by case basis. If you want to be sure and safe then building to SVA / BIVA spec is the best way forward (IMO) .Even if rebuilding an old rod project I'd build to the SVA / BIVA spec ,just a safeguard against possible problems in the future.

As always if anyone wants specific advice contact ACE via the website or PM me for contact details
 

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Hi Kev,

This is unchartered water for us and something we never come up against but, for my own interest, how does it work when registering an imported from Europe and/or American rod?

On this new SVA/BIVA test, does the vehcile have to meet criteria as laid down from when it was new ie, the 50's on a Pop or is there a new guideline it has to meet?

Also, would say a '55 Chevy with an Art Morrisson chassis and brand new late motor have to go through the procedure?

PM me if need be!






Stew
 

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Hi Stew, here's a cut and paste from one I wrote earlier that shoull answer your query ,. If you want clarification of any point just ask.:-

It seems with a more stable exchange rate and the ability to source vehicles via the Internet that many are choosing to import ready built rods at realistic prices. Many may be spurred on by the statement that SVA only applies to post 1998 vehicles and so that old steel motor won't be a problem eh ?
Well, is anything that appears to be too good to be true ever true ? Well mixed answer on this question and scenario.
If it were a stock pre 1998 motor no worries at all but once it's modified the approach all changes. "Well how would they know",I can hear you all shouting in frustration? Simple answer is that they don't need to know. If they feel in the slightest doubt they ask for confirmation of the vehicles identity from a recognized source, generally the Owners Clubs as listed on their V756 list.
Bear in mind that in the past the person looking at your vehicle from the local DRO wasn't likely to have much knowledge of old vehicles, had little if any training, and so, if the paperwork and patina looked good, you were usually fine.
Since the answers to the consultation document were published, in July 2004, the DVLA has been training new inspectors plus retraining existing operatives. They have been given refresher courses at Hendon Police college and are so more aware of the CORRECT methods of applying rules which has generally varied from DRO to DRO based on 'custom'.
The current approach appears to be that you make an application to register your vehicle at the local office, they attend for inspection, or you trailer the car to them , and if they feel concerned they then ask for confirmation of it's integrity as above. Generally the clubs on the V756 lists are restorers and unlikely to be modified vehicle friendly though I know of some who will verify juice brakes and flathead V8s in some cars as 'period' modifications.
Now, the car doesn't have to be stone stock as long as it meets the following laid down criteria it should still receive an age related plate without needing SVA.

From DVLA site :-
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new/used parts

In order to retain the original registration mark:
Cars and Car-Derived Vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or
A new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer/manufacturer (e.g. receipt)
And two other major components from the original vehicle - see list below
Suspension (front & back)
Axles (both)
Transmission
Steering Assembly
Engine
If a second-hand chassis/monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a ESVA/SVA test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.
N.B Vehicle Identification Check
From 7th April 2003, all cars and some tricycles (e.g. Robin Reliant) that are written off by an insurance company or declared scrapped by their owners due to accident damage will have to be notified to DVLA.
VIC has been introduced to deter criminals from disguising stolen cars with the identity of written off or scrapped ones. The check is designed to help confirm that the vehicle being returned to the road has been repaired following accident damage and has not been stolen.
For further information contact the Vehicle Operator Services Agency Website on www.vosa.gov.uk. End of quote

It is possible that by getting confirmation from the Owners club before stating the registration process and then supplying this, together with chassis and engine number photos, you may avoid inspection though , at the moment ,this still seems to vary from office to office.
So, the summary !
If the inspector looks at the car and agrees that it is a steel car built before 1998, and that it is standard, you will receive an age related plate.
If he looks at it and feels it has been modified but within the above criteria it should still receive an age related plate.
If he looks at it and feels it has been modified, but does not meet the above criteria ,but you have documentation that all work was carried prior to 98 you MAY still get an age related plate OR a Q plate.
If he looks at it and decides that the work looks so good that it must have been done AFTER 1998 , and you have no proof to the contrary you WILL be sent for SVA
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thanks kev, thats made it a lot clearer, its much better this gets talked about in the open instead of half truths and rumours from behind closed doors, i can even see the dvla point of view that some sort of inspection should be carried out, you dont want a spotty 17 year old with his 100amp welder building a car from scratch and charging down the road towards you, sorry if your 17, spotty and have a 100 amp welder.:pmsl:
 

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Obviously some items need discussing personally rather than an open forum still but there is no reason to hide the truth of how the rules work /worked and how it affects our hobby.

For clarification VOSA deal with the safety aspect and DVLA deal with the paperwork excersises . Both are controlled by DfT ( Department for Transport)
 
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