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They market these products, Slick 50, ZZR oil additives has the be all and end all. What do our engine builders think? What do you use?.

I have just spent £s on a Jag v12 rebuild and obviously want the best oil and additives from the start. Right now I have Miller oils 20 50 running in oil.

What oil, bearing in mind its a standard 73 lump, should I run it on once run in.

Should I use additives?
 

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What you definitely shouldn't use is blue text on a dark background like that :eek:

People have to be able to read the question to answer it lol.

Anyway, I'm gonna put this one in tech :tup:
 

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After squinting ( ! )if you use the search facility and put in ZDDP and (author) Kapri and it brings up 5 threads that cover this especially re cams. Also includes posts from castrol technical.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
oops

Ok sorry for the blue thats better thanks.

Thanks Kapri I missed it first time round.

Looks like I am using the best stuff for the job
( my engine builder did say it was.....)

I have been a Valvoline fan but Millers looks good to Me
DC
 

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It all depends on what you want the additive to do?
Do you want it to work as a friction ruducer (i.e to increase the oil's lubriciouness) or as a damage prevention policy (loss of pressure, start up, atc atc).

In a nut shell, nearly all oils have all the additives inthat you need for your engine, as you said it's stock then go with the recommended oil (although it will be a modern equivalent).
For damage prevention, I always used Wynn's supercharged, thick gooey and saw a demo using a ball bearing. V interesting. They reckon that you used to be able to run a car for 200 miles with oil loss as it prevented damage ( bit sceptical as the lube in the bearings would over heat degrade, how long have you got for me to carry on?) and it worked for me on one or two occasions.

Additives to increase lubricity, yes they work to a fashion, but as I said, most of the modern oils have everything and more than what you need, it's not an F1 engine.
Always makes me laugh when you see kids putting mobil 1 in thier escort 1.3, what a waste of money, still only an escort and the oil is far superior (viscosity and lub'ness at given temps).

IMHO

It's up to you, I'd forget the additives and run a semi synthetic with the correct grading, will work a treat.

Race engine are however a different matter........
 

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Fozwanger, not sure if you read the other links but the modern oils do NOT have the formulation required for older engines hence the need either for additives or careful selction of an oil to the correct spec for the age of engine ...and the confidence in the manufacturer that it actually meets the relevant specs ie SE for ealier non car motors.

Most factors wil try and sell you any old toot and mine hadn't even heard of the ZDDP issues ( not that I'd expect them too to be honest ).
 

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Kev,

We used to have a lot of dealings with old and new oils, the major difference being that the new oils have to be a bit thinner and possess non clogging agents as the gallaries in modern engines are small (VVT solenoids and things) where as the older engines require thicker oils. In the old motors (vintage) we used to mix straight 50 with grease!!!!! to get them thick enough to stop the oil leaking out and keep pressure.
There are also different materials in engines these days to you need to make sure that you prevent disimilar corrotion.
I'll read the links (can you send them to me) and teach myself something new.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
opinions

This is why I asked the question for opinions.....................

My reason was I wanted to do ther best for a newly rebuilt 5.3 Jag lump.

It seems modern technology oil wise as moved on and left older engines behind. I just wanted to do the best, I use Mobil 1 all the time in the right applications but knew it wasnt for the V12 on British tolerences.

I read Kapri posts and it told Me Millers was the one and it needed nothing adding as it is all in there. When I call at Millers tomorrow I will ask them this question and let you know what they say

Thanks

Dave C
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·


Just to show I care lol

Dave c
 

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Regarding the Slick 50 stuff; I was once blasting along the M11 at a rate of knots when the oil light came on. Turns out the oilpump driveshaft had snapped (302 ford).
I was 10 miles from an exit and I wasn't in the RAC then. I'd put slick 50 in a few weeks before so I thought I'd see how it fared.
Carried on (in the slow lane), made the exit and parked it. Once recovered, I pulled the sump expecting shrapnel. None. Pulled some bearing caps, all pristine.
Had the car for another year after that; never any repercussions.
So it does do what it says on the tin.
 

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Just use the best sythetic oil you can afford and your shouldn't need any additives.

Here's Gary Penn from GM thoughts on synthetic oil.

At GM, we are also big fans of synthetic motor oil after break-in. The stuff has really improved over the years and allows you to get by with things you might have never thought possible. A good example is our 385 crate engine, which is the same engine that our new 400hp circle track crate engine is based on. At the drag strip, we actually run the 385 engine out of oil at 1,000 feet and run it with no oil pressure across the finish line at 7,500 rpm. The pump has it all in the top of the engine at 1,000 feet because we only run three quarts of 0W-10 in the motor. That frees up a few horsepower because nothing is going through the pump, it just cavitates. Plus, there is no oil in the crankcase so you don't have any windage.

Even though the engine is running for about two seconds with no oil pressure, we really aren't seeing any undue wear on the engines. That's a testament to the quality of synthetic oils out there today. Now, I definitely am not recommending a circle track racer try this--those engines require more oil with more viscosity, and they require a lot more endurance--but you get the idea of how the envelope is being pushed. The advanced quality of the oils on the market means the old rule of thumb that you need 10 pounds of pressure per 1,000 rpm is not valid any more.

It would be interesting to compare the contents of these additives to a top quality synthetic and see how similar they are.
 

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And I know and except that he's talking race motors but I don't see the point in not running synthetic oils as they are simply much better.
 

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The 2 main consideratione when choosing oil are viscosity and whether it is running a roller cam. Older engines have larger clerances and running thinner oil reduces pressure ( seen it happen on my own oil gauge ) and roller cams don't see the loads that flat tappets do.
Also if a cat equipped car a higher zddp content will destroy it hence its reduction in later oils.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
just to clear up..

I have started the engine on Millers 20 50 running in oil.

1000 miles on when I change the oil Millers Classic seems to be the one as it still contains the 'right' ZDDPs.

Like everyone who cares about their ride I would spend what it cost to put the BEST oil in the engine. If additives are part of this then I would use them. If they are just
hype or in fact harmful then I would stay away.

Just to clear up another point I intend to use it for a little trundlling about
and Motorway cruising. Billing, The Nats and hopefully Le Mans in June.

No speed tests or drag strips !!!!! Thats what the Pop is for!

Thanks
Dave C
 

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You must have more money than sense, running a V12 about and to Le Mans and then havvin a pop for the fast stuff.

I like your style
:)
 

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OK lets get back to basics, unless you are running a recent hi-tech engine then synthetic oil is something you DO NOT use.
Synthetics offer two benefits-extended oil change intervals and slightly better gas mileage ,these things matter to manufacturers but not to us.
In the UK a good mineral based 20/50 or 10/40 is all you will ever need, if you keep the oil changes regular and often with proper care our large capacity engines are good for 200K or more if you are careful. That's a lot of motoring!
I don't tend to use any 'snake oil' potions in my oil as they can form ash on combustion. This ash can be abrasive and can form deposits that can cause detonation when it builds up in an engine.
A little known fact is that some of the oil marketed for Diesel engines has a better blend for reducing wear, preventing sludge etc.
For running in Comp Cams or GM additive that provides extra zinc and manganese will help flat tappet cams survive.
On an older high miler STP is good and also a product called 'Engine Restore.'
 

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If you search for Castrol using the search function you will find mail from Castrol Tech recommending their Turbo Edge oil 10/60 as being suitable for older engines that need better protection.:tup:
 
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