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Tribute to Edwardian aero engined cars and Land Speed Record cars of the 1920's

50K views 262 replies 40 participants last post by  stormbird  
#1 ·
Hi all

Well the donor has arrived :-

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I got a good chassis , 1700 O series engine with 5 speed box , servo brakes and all done 107k in 30 years so not bad.

Want to build something loosely based on this car :-

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So need to move radiator/engine/gearbox back about 3 ft and build steel cowl , aluminum bonnet/sides and wooden body.

I will use almost 100% Sherpa parts until DVLA accept re-body and then if I enjoy driving it , look at maybe a 6 pot motor bigger wheels and start making it look more period and every so slightly steam punk .....

regards Paul
 
#4 ·
How the original was built , formers stringers and 2 layers of 1.5mm plywood , needed a boat builder to pull that off !
Original :-

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I have not been idle whilst looking for a donor , this is my second [ better looking ] model , trying to figure out how to build it simpler but retaining the look ?

So rather than make the formers and bulkheads from lots of expensive sheets of Birch Plywood [ B/P from now on ] as the original[ above ].
I though it better to build a frame work and clad it in lighter sheets of plywood for the flat bits and strip construction for the curved bits. this is better suited to my tools - cheaper - and allows luggage storage in the 4 largest lower bays behind seats.

and my 1/12 scale model:-

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and inside :-

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So from left to right a framework for the lower portion of the body where the sides only have a curve in one direction , floor from 6mm B/P roof from 3mm B/P above sits formers of 6mm B/P that will support strip construction maybe 3/4" x 3/8" soft wood ripped myself from planks [ throwing out all the badly knotted stuff ? ]

The silver bit is the bonnet that will be sheet steel or aluminium and the black piece is the steel radiator cowl.

The bulkhead behind the seats and dashboard and firewall will be 12mm B/P the floor will be 12mm B/P although probably made of laminated curved pieces for the lower edges to get the outer curved shape and floorboards of 12mm B/P so they can easily be removed should I want a different engine gearbox ?

I can't show the lower frame work in the cockpit as the seats are a little to large , however it would stretch from the existing one parallel to the ground to the firewall.

The other side of the model shows 3mm B/P skin on areas with only 1 curve [ yellow bits ] and all the top white area represents the area to be strip planked , the orange showing one side of where the planking will go and represent a couple of planks.

Sherpa has bed removed and rear screen out , just waiting for rain to stop will get out windscreen cut roof off and remove doors should fit in garage then for rest of dismantling.

regards Paul
 
#5 · (Edited)
Have you seen the Napier Railton with the 'W' section 12 cylinder Napier Lion aero engine at any of the Brooklands events? - there are a couple more similar lookalikey cars that have been built and doing the rounds on (I think) old Bentley chassis's (saw them at Kop Hill this year) - one has a turbo charged diesel Cummins truck engine - it seemed surprisingly quiet and civilised for such an engine - OK not an aero engine but big capacity.
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#7 ·
Imho go to the very largest capacity engine you can find. Some of the earlier truck engines were petrol . Failing that a straight 8 engine out of a Buick, Hudson (uk Railton), Pontiac or Rolls powered ex army vehicle. What about a flat 4 or flat 6 Continental air cooled engine out of a Cessna ?
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the welcome and the pictures there are some beautiful motors made/driven in this country.

I am looking for the earlier cruder type of machine more seat of the pants , this makes it easier in some respects no ' shiny paint finish ' little metal body work and build can be cruder than the cars shown above :D

Baby steps however , first I want it successfully registered as a rebody with the DVLA and passing an MOT , then we can start dreaming about engines , modest initial goals mean more chance of finishing it ?

Seems very easy to make a open topped sporting car , 2 days so far ....

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and now it fits in the garage , just .....

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Next up is to start labelling wiring and removing front body a bit at a time till it is all gone.

Does anyone know if I can remove cab and leave engine and gearbox in situ ?

Found petrol tank leaking so that needs removing before long as I weld in that garage !

Not sure if it can be repaired , looks like a stone chip on the front has rusted through rest looks sound , shame as I thought it could be used if moved to under the tail to where the spare currently sits.

Need to judge the point where I no longer need to drive it and then the fun begins , my drive is quite step so without being able to drive it I need help to wheel it in and out.

all for now Paul
 
#10 ·
Hi all

Slow but steady progress , being hampered by the wiring , god it takes a torturous path and there loads of it I mean who puts the fuse box in the middle of the dash board and 6 relays inside the passenger foot well and all individually mounted ?

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Anyone know how to undo speedo cable at instrument end ?

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Sometimes simply hacking till you get where you want is best :tup:

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Still puzzled why it has a ECU ? as it is a single carb engine with a manual choke and what looks like normal ignition ?

Success [ I think ] when I found and removed the front 2 cab/chassis bolts , still no idea where the other 2 are.

Also it is a very strange mix of Imperial and metric bolt sizes ?

All for now Paul
 
#12 ·
Hi all

Slow but steady progress , being hampered by the wiring , god it takes a torturous path and there loads of it I mean who puts the fuse box in the middle of the dash board and 6 relays inside the passenger foot well and all individually mounted ?

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Anyone know how to undo speedo cable at instrument end ?

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Sometimes simply hacking till you get where you want is best :tup:

Squeeze the ribbed bit, like when you undo the lid of a medicine bottle, & it should just pull off.
 
#14 ·
Go the speedo cable off , so was able to disassemble the steering column switches only to find out there seem to be those snap off security bolts holding the column to the dashboard as well as holding the ignition switch to the column.

Found an easy way of labeling :-

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white electricians tape onto glass [ mirror in my case ] add label with biro then add sellotape over text and cut to length with a single sided razor blade

drained water out , however pipes to heater proving hard to remove and windscreen wiper motor out but not the rack yet.

had an epiphany when looking at wiring loom , realised I was trying to remove loom by feeding it out of cab and into engine bay , in actual fact it looks like it was installed in the opposite direction , so have passenger side inside cab and drivers side looks easy to do so almost done with cab electrics ...

more progress soon Paul
 
#16 ·
Progress is slow but ongoing...

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Removed :-

radiator
header tank
heater - bl**dy hell it is big and clumsy may need to find a smaller one to keep tootsies warm
cab wiring loom - at last ! after a bit of dashboard surgery and hitting all 6 relays with a bit of wood it is out

still to do [ in no particular order ] :-

steering column - security screws need removing
choke - can't understand how to release cable from carb end ? it is a HIF-44 and has a very small bolt and screw holding it maybe 4mm but which do I undo ?
gear lever - held with a rusty roll pin that needs tapping out , may try heat and making a small tool to go inside it with a lip to catch the pin ?
Fuel tank
drivers seat
brakes
clutch

Then un-clip rear loom and brake pipes from underneath cab.

I will cut the front valance where the 2 black lines are that will make the front open so it can clear the engine.

Hopeful I can get the cab off on my own ?

jack it up and place wood under it till it clears the gear lever stub then slide it backwards over the chassis rails till the front is clear of the gearbox then slide it sideways off the chassis.

I intend leaving the pedals in place and then cut the firewall and a section of floor out to free them , this will give me a reference as to where to put them in my build ?

all for now Paul
 
#18 ·
To do list rapidly diminishing :tup:

Only brakes to disconnect , clutch [ may just unbolt master cylinder and tie to engine ] , choke to free , ECU to strap to engine along with coil , free rear wiring loom ...

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As I have cut front valance off thought it would be a good idea to attach front number plate to chassis so it appears in photographs.

Plan is still to raise cab so valance clears wheels and slide it rearwards then sideways onto floor ?

Thanks to your good-selves [ and patience I am a bit thick sometimes :pmsl:] I now know how to remove gear lever so hopefully this weekend may attempt the lift/removal fingers crossed.

regards Paul
 
#22 ·
Trigger thanks for offering.

I am in Mansfield and will heed your warning.

I usually go around the corner for some local muscle a dad and 2 sons are generally enough , we did manage to lift the dropside off the chassis.

However to be honest I have no idea how heavy this may be ?

I had thought of cutting it in half front to back through the gear lever hole , although there is a big cross cab beam under the rear seat mounts and my saw/grinder may not have the depth to tackle that ?

Still struggling with gear levers chokes etc

Also fetching another motor today and putting it on the front lawn has sort of limited my dismantling time at the moment.
 
#23 ·
Had to leave this for a while , however got a few hours today.

Choke is out
clutch drained and master cylinder unbolted and strapped to engine
front brakes drained - rears seem to have a different sized brake nipple ? not found a spanner yet that fits
ECU clear of body work and strapped to engine
rear loom freed from cab and tied up out of way.

Next drain rear brakes and then disconnect both brake pipes from master cylinder and u-nclip from cab.

Then jack up the rear of the cab and attempt to cut it in half.

back soon ....
 
#27 · (Edited)
Well I was frustrated as my usual muscled seemed to have been out last night and so no progress could be made ...

Then the light came on :D if it wanted to fall off then why not let it and then drag the separate parts out of the way ?

So using some ratchet straps I squeezed it back together and removed the wooden blocks holding it up...

So far so good.

I then wheeled it out the garage so when it fell it was already outside [ no room to drop the drivers side in the garage anyway ]

I then propped the drivers side back up and undid the straps , passenger side fell onto front wheel and easily lifted off and dragged onto the lawn.

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Went underneath and freed off the last brake pipes and the drivers side almost came free , only some numpty had reattached the handbrake cable forgetting it was fastened to some gubbins under the floor - freeing it gave this...

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Silly grin as I sat on a board right near the rear wheel and surveyed the bits laid out in front of me.

Next ? needs wheeling out and giving a good pressure washing before I start assessing the next stage.
 
#29 ·
Well not much has happened to this , needed some thinking time and had a ' honey do ' list most of that is now taken care off.

Engine and gearbox need moving , however as I am keeping them they do not need to come out only crawl down the chassis a bit.

Removed prop shaft from gearbox tail and dropped it onto floor for now.

So decided to prop up some rails under the cross members and drop the engine and gearbox onto them then the chassis can be wheeled forward ?

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The gearbox was complicated as the cross member was in-front of the rear spring hanger and needed to be behind it so that meant more wood and jacking up stuff to free it.

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Engine is complicated as it is in 3 pieces and so the inside piece is narrow enough to move inside the chassis rails the plates need removing from the chassis for future use that entails removing steering box.

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Hope when I have them off chassis will run forward and I can re-attach gearbox cross member an see how far back it can go.

Then it is down to can engine/gearbox stay under the chassis and go far enough back , or do they need to be raised and sit on top of the chassis ? if so will the prop shaft angle still be acceptable ?

It is a 2 piece prop shaft and I would really like to loose the centre bearing and the front shaft , however I notice the 2 yokes are a different size so that would be a simple job , least the sliding aspect is in the longer rear shaft so the front could be shortened down to 175mm ? and may still work ?

all for now Paul
 
#30 ·
Panic !!!

My rolling chassis won't roll anymore ?

Mystified I jack up each of the front wheels to find I could not turn them ?

Well I rolled it out of the garage to pressure wash engine and gearbox , I can only assume the water has splashed onto the discs and in 4 days they have enough rust on them to stop the wheels turning ?

I will try taking the wheel off and bolting a piece of wood to the wheel studs to see if rocking them will free them ?

Otherwise I assume I will have to take the disc pads out.